12:06 Celebrating the Life and Times of Asa Fox
Hunters have gathered and are Celebrating the Life and Times of Asa Fox, and so are we, even though we just met him. The boys take their first trip to Canada, but keep all knowledge of anti-possession tattoos to themselves. Liz talks about Clinical Lycanthropy cases from the 1970s and 1980s.
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Transcript
On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, we've got your weekend plans for you.
Speaker A:First off, anti possession tattoo party.
Speaker B:And then we'll pop on over to the cat night spots.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker B:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker B:I'm Diana.
Speaker A:And I'm Liz.
Speaker B:And we're going to Talk season 12, episode 6, celebrating the life of Asa Fox.
Speaker A:Indeed, that is a title of an episode we are going to talk about.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:Ah, what have you been up to, Liz?
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's January now.
Speaker A:We have reached.
Speaker A:We've reached winter.
Speaker B:But it's not.
Speaker A:But it's not winter.
Speaker A:It was 82 degrees today and that was kind of awesome.
Speaker A:But hey, everything is fine.
Speaker A:Everything is just fine.
Speaker A:And so it was.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:So enjoying some good outside time.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker A:I did watch the series my, My Lady Jane and I wish somebody else would watch it so I could talk about.
Speaker A:Spoiler alert.
Speaker A:They take history and they change it a lot and they change the Catholics versus Protestants into shape shifters versus non shape shifters, which was an interesting choice.
Speaker A:So that's all the spoiler.
Speaker A:So I think that will intrigue you to watch anymore.
Speaker A:But I want somebody to watch it so that I could about what they did with the history.
Speaker B:I mean, it's historical fiction.
Speaker A:It is historical fiction.
Speaker A:But there are some premise when you do that and you change things, you have to think about like, why did you make the Catholics the non shape shifter?
Speaker A:You know, so it's.
Speaker A:And that may not even be.
Speaker A:That may just be my brain making too directive a correlation between what happened in history and what this fictionalized version was.
Speaker A:But it was very well written and it was hilarious and the characters were great.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Costumes were fantastic.
Speaker A:Dialogue was incredibly witty.
Speaker A:It's filthy.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It was a good time and I'm very sad that it was only on for a season.
Speaker A:It deserved to be on longer.
Speaker A:So I did that.
Speaker A:And then right now I'm very sore because I thought it would be fun to go hang myself up in aerial chains and spin around in them and it was fun.
Speaker A:But now I hurt.
Speaker A:It hurt then and I hurt now.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But I, I did that to myself.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Speaking of hurting, how are you doing?
Speaker B:I'm still in recovery mode from my, my new knee.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think, I think it's.
Speaker B:That part's getting a lot better.
Speaker B:The part that's not getting better is my ability to sleep at night.
Speaker B:And it still sucks so.
Speaker B:So hopefully one of these days soon, I will unlock the last piece of the puzzle of recovery, which is sleeping through the night.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're just like a little baby.
Speaker A:Little baby can't sleep through the night.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:I'm like a little baby.
Speaker B:I'm real cranky.
Speaker B:I can't drive.
Speaker B:Can't sleep through the night, can't vote.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker A:So many things.
Speaker A:Just like a little.
Speaker A:Can't drink.
Speaker A:Like, there's just.
Speaker B:Hold on now.
Speaker B:There's definitely been a.
Speaker B:It's been a few hours since my pain pill.
Speaker B:I can have a glass of wine.
Speaker B:No biggie.
Speaker B:I did learn this weekend that Mikosina, which is a beloved Tex Mex chain in the Dallas area, has the mambo taxis.
Speaker B:Like their margarita they're famous for because they're delicious.
Speaker B:They will.
Speaker A:They will sneak up on you.
Speaker B:And it's frozen margarita with sangria swirl.
Speaker B:It's whatever.
Speaker B:But theirs is good.
Speaker B:But they make a skinny version, which really, at the end of the day, just means it's not as sweet and not filled with a bunch of, like, crappy stickers.
Speaker B:It is so good.
Speaker B:And I learned that they had that this weekend, and I had that in amount of chips this weekend, and I was a happy girl.
Speaker A:That does sound lovely.
Speaker A:Yay, Tex Mex.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's my excitement.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Go to Uber Eats, order some chips in case.
Speaker B:But yeah, so there we go.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A: ere's, you know, it's January: Speaker A:So in just terms of keeping things relative to what's happening in the world, Jared Padalecki broke his leg.
Speaker A:We don't know why.
Speaker A:We just know that the moose is down.
Speaker A:The mooses has broken his leg.
Speaker A:I had.
Speaker A:I have thoughts about how it happened.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:We'll put a bingo card up.
Speaker A:It's kind of.
Speaker A:It'll be like a death watch.
Speaker A:But everybody, I want to hear, like, we should put a poll out.
Speaker A:How do you think Jared Padalecki broke his leg?
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:I think it involves some sort of dancing, but that's just me.
Speaker B:They trip on his hair.
Speaker A:Did he trip?
Speaker A:Was he trying to take a selfie with his hair and trip on something?
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:But yeah, so apparently he's announced that with no details.
Speaker B:So that's where we're at today.
Speaker A:As far as I know, he wasn't filming anything, so there it.
Speaker A:I'm assuming it is embarrassing because he hasn't said all he did.
Speaker A:So, guys, if you want to, you Can Google this.
Speaker A:No matter what time of whenever you're listening to this, you can Google Jared Padalecki H e b favor and watch how he get, like, loses his shit over H e B not wanting to deliver his sushi.
Speaker B:Well, it's F. The Favor app.
Speaker A:The favor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's who he's mad at.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, he owns it, so technically he's mad at H e B.
Speaker A:And that's kind of like being mad at the mafia.
Speaker A:Like, you can't be mad at Heb in Texas.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't realize that Favor was owned by.
Speaker B:I didn't know that today.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure, you know, I know it's like, it's their thing, so I'm pretty sure I think it's them.
Speaker A:So, I mean, you can't.
Speaker A:You can't go after Heb.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's a line you don't cross.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we'll see.
Speaker A:We'll see what happens.
Speaker A:No matter how mad you get, Padalecki, Heb might be coming for you.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Danger, danger, danger.
Speaker A:All right, so let's get to talking about.
Speaker A:About him and all the other people in this episode celebrating the life of Asa Fox, which there is no double entendre behind the meaning of this episode.
Speaker A:That's just what it's doing.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:See episode 11, into the Mystic episode The Vessel.
Speaker A:In episode 22, We Happy Few.
Speaker A:This was written by Steve Yocki or Yoki.
Speaker A:Y. O C K E Y. I'm gonna say Y.
Speaker A:He went on to create.
Speaker A:This was his first.
Speaker A:This was his first episode of Supernatural.
Speaker A:And he does.
Speaker A:He will do some more episodes after this, but he goes on from here to create the Flight Attendant.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And really, you know, the Emmy award winning Katie.
Speaker A:Cuckoo.
Speaker A:God damn.
Speaker A:I can remember how to say her.
Speaker B:C. Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cuoco, right?
Speaker A:Cuoco.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So her.
Speaker A:Her show and then also the dead boy Detective series.
Speaker A:RIP so this is.
Speaker A:I kind of warned about this episode last time.
Speaker A:Like, I have feelings about it and I think you'll.
Speaker A:We'll talk about why I have feelings.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:There's a lot that happens in this episode.
Speaker A:There's a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah, a lot.
Speaker B:A lot, a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we open with a recap.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that recap kind of first off, we're like, obviously, Dean killed Hitler.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Just in case you forgot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we get the highlighting with the fam.
Speaker B:The Winchester family talking about saving people and hunting things.
Speaker B:And we see a little bit of Mary, we see a little bit of Bobby, and we get some demonic possession.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So a lot of hunters, a lot of demons.
Speaker A:And then the family is still spending time apart.
Speaker A:So I go, okay, but we're not going to start off in the present.
Speaker A:We're going to start off in Manitoba, Canada.
Speaker A: Emerson in: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we've got a kid running through the woods, being chased by something.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:He gets cornered by this something.
Speaker B:It's monster.
Speaker B:It's a werewolf that scratches his cheek, and right when it's about to attack him, it gets shot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was going for the heart, and he gets shot.
Speaker A:And we find out that he's getting shot by Mary.
Speaker A:And we can tell it's a younger Mary because her hair is in pigtails.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so she drives this kid home to his very nice house, and he, you know, she kind of, like, introduces herself as Mary, and he gets him to introduce himself as Asa Fox, and she's like, you'll be fine.
Speaker B:And he's like, what was that?
Speaker B:She's like, oh, it's a werewolf that I've been tracking for, like, a super long time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so instead of giving him a description of what werewolves are, we think she's just gonna drop him off.
Speaker A:So we're gonna talk about some things, about what werewolves are.
Speaker A:We're gonna talk a little bit about some lo.
Speaker A:And I wanted to talk about this is we get onto these lore subjects sometimes, because I'm just Googling around things.
Speaker A:And by Googling, I mean I use DuckDuckGo, because don't use Google.
Speaker A:And thinking about this, I got from werewolf to clinical lycanthropy, and just thinking about lycanthropes and people like the actual clinical people who think that they are werewolves.
Speaker A:That's what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker A: And in: Speaker A:And we're going to look at several case studies from that book.
Speaker A:And I would say, besides a trigger warning, because we're going to do some things, there's going to be some talk about bestiality and in general, hardcore mental health challenges.
Speaker A:These are real people.
Speaker A:And it was hard to think, you know, trying to think about this.
Speaker A: Not like this is, you know,: Speaker A:And it's really interesting.
Speaker A:And so with that in mind, we're going to talk about clinical lycanthropy.
Speaker A:So in his introduction, Noel quotes from a clinical description of lycanthropy attributed to a 7th century physician named Paul of a Gina.
Speaker A:I may say that sounds like a vagina, but a china, that sounds right, right.
Speaker A:He was around 625 to 690 AD.
Speaker A:And on Lycanthropia or on lycaon, those laboring under lycanthropia go out during the night, imitating wolves in all things and lingering about sepulchres until morning.
Speaker A:You may recognize such persons by their marks.
Speaker A:They are pale, their vision feeble, their eyes dry, tongue very dry and the flow of the saliva stopped.
Speaker A:But they are thirsty and their legs have incurable ulcerations from frequent falls.
Speaker A:Such are the marks of this disease.
Speaker A:You must know that lycanthropia is this.
Speaker A:I don't know how to say that word.
Speaker A:I'm just make changing it every time.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:So it's a species of melancholy.
Speaker A:I do not say that word.
Speaker A:That is melancholy.
Speaker A:So it is a species of melancholy which you may cure at the time of the attack by opening a vein and abstracting blood to fainting and giving the patient a diet of wholesome food.
Speaker A:Let him use baths of sweet water and then milk whey for three days.
Speaker A:And purging with the hyra from collison, which was some sacred drug from a gourd.
Speaker A:Twice or thrice after the purging is used the theriac of vipers, which was like an anti viper, an anti snake venom.
Speaker A:And administers those mentioned for the cure of melancholy when disease is already formed, use soporific imprecations and rub the nostrils with opium when going to rest.
Speaker A:Now, I think I found the solution to your sleeping problem, Diana.
Speaker A:I think if you just rub your nostrils with opium before you go bed, I think you're gonna.
Speaker A:You'll rest just fine there.
Speaker B:I think you're right.
Speaker B:I think you're right.
Speaker B:I have to look into that one.
Speaker A:All right, so.
Speaker A:But this definition no pointed out was the first time that lycanthropy was linked with melancholy or depression.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Also discusses using the term zoanthropy instead of lycanthropy, so that the diagnosis could include individuals who believed they were animals.
Speaker A:Other than wolves.
Speaker A:Because when we start talking about this, we're going to talk about some cases.
Speaker A:People think they're animals, but they're not necessarily wolves.
Speaker A: ychiatric Association Journal: Speaker A:It was presented by the Chief of Psychiatry from the Veterans Administration Administration Hospital, Lexington, Kentucky and an associate professor from the Department of Psychiatry from the University of Kentucky.
Speaker A:So they have some credits.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I have edited these studies to make them understandable and shorter because cycle babble is long.
Speaker A:All right, case number one, Mr. H. Mr. H was a 20 year old, single unemployed white male from Appalachia.
Speaker A:He was admitted with a history of prolonged and chronic drug abuse, including marijuana, amphetamine, psilocybin and lsd.
Speaker A:Ten months before, he had taken LSD with strychnine while in Europe with the US Army.
Speaker A:He was out in the woods, took the acid, then felt himself slowly turning into a werewolf, seeing fur growing on his hands and feeling it grow on his face.
Speaker A:And he felt an urge to chase and eat live rabbits.
Speaker A:He also felt that he'd obtained horrible insight into the devil's world.
Speaker A:That's a note.
Speaker A:Keep note of that for future case studies.
Speaker A:He took the feeding time on the mess hall sign as proof that others thought he was a wolf.
Speaker A:The army sent him to a psychiatrist who treated him with Thorazine for a few months.
Speaker A:He returned to the US and went to rehab for a few weeks.
Speaker A:He came out abstaining from all drugs except marijuana.
Speaker A:Then he went and saw the Exorcist weeks before entering the hospital and it him up.
Speaker A:He thought the devil came out of the screen and possessed moviegoers.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:There is a family history suggestive of mental disease.
Speaker A:And an older brother and a maternal cousin were denied admission to the army because they were, quote, weird and nervous.
Speaker A:Was this an actual army classification?
Speaker A:Please tell me there was a weird and nervous.
Speaker A:A recruiter could check and they came in.
Speaker A:Weird nervous, not going in the army.
Speaker A:Yeah, probably so, Mr. H. Starting.
Speaker B:I hope so actually.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:So Mr. H started doing hallucinogens in junior high.
Speaker A:While in high school he became interested in the occult and identified with the male priest who claimed to be a Satanist.
Speaker A:Now what fucking church are you going to?
Speaker A:Because it sounds awesome and I would like to attempt that mass.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:So he then joined the army where his drug use escalated.
Speaker A:He was discharged after 14 months and returned home and reported being restless, hostile, agitated and hedonic, which is a state of lacking pleasure or interested activities, socially withdrawn and unable to maintain steady Work.
Speaker A:He also believed that the devil had possessed the hospital staff.
Speaker A:He felt his thoughts were being broadcast and that he had powers, including the ability to read minds and control dogs with his.
Speaker A:There, the patient was treated with Triflo Parazine and showed gradual improvement.
Speaker A:At the time of his discharge, 32 days after admission, he had dropped the belief that he was a werewolf or that he was possessed and displayed no other psychotic determinants.
Speaker A:The patient was referred to an outpatient clinic near his hometown, 200 miles from this hospital.
Speaker A:He was seen for an interview at that clinic two weeks after his discharge and appeared polite but guarded, was preoccupied with Satanism and had stopped his medications because they made him feel uneasy.
Speaker A:No further contact was established with this patient, and staff suspected he may have felt threatened by the clinic.
Speaker A:Attempts to contact him for further visits were unsuccessful.
Speaker B:Huh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's case number one.
Speaker A:And I said, like, that does not sound like a good time at all.
Speaker A:And I really hope at some point somebody found that boy and he got some.
Speaker A:Some help.
Speaker A:Yes, that boy.
Speaker B:That boy.
Speaker A:So case number two, which.
Speaker A: erican journal of Psychiatry,: Speaker A:And the doctors were from the Hauser Clinic in Texas.
Speaker A:So this patient was a 49 year old married woman obsessed with wolves.
Speaker A:Like, thought about them 24, 7.
Speaker A:One week before her admission, she got undressed, assumed the female sexual posture of a wolf and presented herself to her mother.
Speaker A:This behavior lasted for 20 minutes.
Speaker A:The next night, after sex with her husband, she growled, scratch and gnawed at the bed.
Speaker A:She stated that the devil came into her body and she became an animal.
Speaker A:She also experienced auditory hallucinations, but there was no drug or alcohol involvement.
Speaker A:Now, this lady's husband, why did he have sex with her?
Speaker A:Like, clearly somebody is having an episode.
Speaker B:The fact that she is not well.
Speaker A:She is not having a good day, sir.
Speaker A:And I. I'm.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So that was just my thought on that.
Speaker A:I. I was just like.
Speaker A:That was the thing that.
Speaker A:I know the other part is horrific, but that's what pointed out to me that your husband sucks.
Speaker A:So the hospital.
Speaker A:So the patient was treated in a structured inpatient program.
Speaker A:She was seen daily for individual psychotherapy and was placed on neuroleptic medication.
Speaker A:During the first three weeks, she suffered relapses when she said such things as, I am a wolf of the night.
Speaker A:I am a wolf woman of the day.
Speaker A:I have claws, teeth, fangs, hair and anguishes my prey at night.
Speaker A:The gnashing and snarling of teeth.
Speaker A:Powerless is my cause.
Speaker A:I am what I am and will always roam the earth.
Speaker A:Long after death.
Speaker A:I will continue to search for perfection and salvation.
Speaker A:She also expressed.
Speaker A:And this is, these are psychiatric journals from the 70s.
Speaker A:So these are a lot of.
Speaker A:These are their wordings, not mine.
Speaker A:So she experienced strong homosexual urges, almost irresistible.
Speaker A:Zoo Philly, which zoophilia refers to a paraphilia involving a sexual or romantic fixation on non human animals.
Speaker A:And it can include sexual acts and that's bestiality.
Speaker A:But they're saying basically she kind of got this, this sex drive to want to have to have that with wolves.
Speaker A:And she started having masturbatory compulsions and then culminated the delusion of a wolf like metamorphosis.
Speaker A:She would gaze into the mirror and see the head of a wolf in place of a face on my own body.
Speaker A:Just a long nosed wolf with teeth.
Speaker A:Groaning, snarling, growling with fangs and claws calling out I am the devil.
Speaker A:Others around her noticed the unintelligible animal like noises she made.
Speaker A:So this is another person who while they're having this delusion or whatever experience they're having is also having the delusion about devils as well, which I think is interesting.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:So by the fourth week she stabilized considerably reporting and that when she looked in the mirror the wolf eyes were gone.
Speaker A:She had one short lived relapse with responded which responded to reassurance by experienced personnel.
Speaker A:And that episode occurred on the night of a full moon.
Speaker A:And she wrote what she experienced.
Speaker A:I don't intend to give up my search for what I lack in my present marriage, My search for such a hairy creature.
Speaker A:I will haunt the graveyards for a tall dark man that I intend to find.
Speaker A:And girl, I mean I, I kind of get it right?
Speaker A:I mean I want to haunt graveyards for tall dark men.
Speaker A:That so, I mean, and maybe this isn't.
Speaker A:Maybe she just needs to read some more paranormal romance.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So the hospital believes that the patient suffered from chronic pseudo neurotic schizophrenia.
Speaker A:What is of particular interest is that the delusional material was organized about a what they called a lycanthropic matrix.
Speaker A:And they said that her symptom complex included the following classic symptoms.
Speaker A:And they gave five classic symptoms.
Speaker A:One, delusions of werewolf transformation under extreme stress.
Speaker A:Two preoccupation with religious phenomenology including feeling victimized by the evil eye.
Speaker A:3 A reference to obsessive need to frequent graveyards and woods.
Speaker A:4 Primitive expression of aggressive and sexual orgies in the form of bestiality or five physiological con commitments of acute anxiety so interesting that those are things I see in all of these cases across different people.
Speaker A:So thinking that they're going to become a werewolf, having this preoccupation with religion, and especially like thinking that the evil eye or something is coming after them through that way.
Speaker A:And a need to visit graveyards in the woods, which, I mean, come on, they're awesome.
Speaker A:Why wouldn't you want to go there?
Speaker A:And then, you know, the bestiality thing.
Speaker A:Gross.
Speaker A:But okay, I think that could also just be.
Speaker A:You're just kind of.
Speaker A:Because when she was like, not.
Speaker A:I. I don't think she would want to.
Speaker A:A wolf.
Speaker A:She was like kind of being like a wolf.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, yeah, like with the animal nature coming out.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that was case number two.
Speaker A:So case number three in lycothropy lives on is from the British Journal of Psychiatry.
Speaker A: And this was: Speaker A:So the patient GB was a 66 year old widow living with an unrelated family member for a week.
Speaker A:She had become aggressive towards some members of the family for no apparent reason.
Speaker A:She would get down on her hands and knees and bark like a dog.
Speaker A:She had also been expressing paranoia, fears about a plot being against her.
Speaker A:She had full memory of acting like a dog and she blamed this on the influence of the devil.
Speaker A:She heard auditory hallucinations which she thought were coming from evil spirits in the other half of the world.
Speaker A:She presented signs of depression, including weight loss, poor appetite and sleeplessness.
Speaker A:She also feared her body was diseased and expressed a death wish, but denied suicide ideations.
Speaker A:But she was fully oriented and her cognitive issues seemed to be intact.
Speaker A:So she was aware of what was going on, but had all this other stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so they said that lycanthropy is essentially a form of depersonalization and a disease.
Speaker A:The differential diagnosis must therefore include schizophrenia, manic depressive psychosis, hysterical neurosis, psychotic depression and organic brain syndromes.
Speaker A: m has been described for over: Speaker A:And in this age of rapidly changing psychiatric taxonomy.
Speaker A:Taxonomy, it must be one of the oldest in the history of psychiatry, which I think is.
Speaker A:Is interesting that this is diagnosis has really been around for thousands of years.
Speaker A:All right, so our last one is case number four, like enthropia, alive and well in the 20th century.
Speaker A: from Psychological Medicine,: Speaker A:So the.
Speaker A:These people came up with diagnostic criteria.
Speaker A:And so they said, clearly the belief that one has been transformed into an animal is central to the definition of lycanthropy.
Speaker A:However, in Their analysis, they wanted to allow for circumstances which the patient had an array of behavior.
Speaker A:For example, barking, howling, crowling, crawling on all fours, things that were suggestive of an animal.
Speaker A:But maybe they didn't specifically say I am a dog, right, they were just acting like one.
Speaker A:So they selected the following operational definition to include at least one of the following.
Speaker A:1 the individual reported verbally, during intervals of lucidity or retrospectively that he or she was a particular animal or to the individual behaved in a manner reminiscent of a particular animal, for example the howling or the growling.
Speaker A:So with that criteria, they contacted the members of McLean Hospital and together with the residents and the nurses asked them to recall patients who had exhibited this.
Speaker A:They actually came up with 13 leads which upon review yielded 12 cases.
Speaker A:Which I feel like is a lot.
Speaker A:That seems like a lot.
Speaker A:It seems like a lot, but I guess that also is like some.
Speaker A:Maybe, maybe this is not as rare as we seem to think.
Speaker A:I seem to think it was right.
Speaker A:They did exclude one patient who was observed to have a cat like gait, but did not believe himself to be a cat and exhibited no other behavior reminiscent of a cat or other animal.
Speaker A:Sorry not to make light of this, but that it's a hilarious thing to write in your journal.
Speaker A:He had a cat like gait, but other than that he didn't think he was a cat.
Speaker A:Walk like a cat, but the weird is like, no, that's just the way Sam walks.
Speaker A:So the Results of the 12 patients, eight met the DSM 3, this was 88, so this is before DSM 5.
Speaker A:So eight patients met DSM 3 criteria for bipolar disorder, six were manic and two were depressed at the time of the episode, two has schizophrenia, one had borderline personality disorder and one patient experiencing the chronic delusion that he was a cat received a diagnosis of atypical psychosis.
Speaker A:Although he'd experienced recurrent episodes of major depression in the past.
Speaker A:One patient growled and contended that he was a Bengal tiger and another patient whose mania was resolving said that he was a rabbit and hopped around the ward for a day.
Speaker A:However, in these latter two cases, the patients admitted that such behavior was under the voluntary control.
Speaker A:Each also admitted that he did not hold firmly to the leaf that he was an animal.
Speaker A:So thus they did not meet the the this.
Speaker A:So then they give a case study of a 24 year old single male presented to McLean Hospital with a history of recurrent major depression, a brief hit period of alcohol abuse and the belief that he was a cat trapped inside a human body.
Speaker A:The belief had Persisted without interruption for 13 years.
Speaker A:The page.
Speaker A:13 years.
Speaker A:The patient stated that he had known that he was a cat since the secret was imparted to him by the family cat, who subsequently taught him cat language.
Speaker A:Very jealous, though gamefully in polite.
Speaker A:The case patient continued to spend virtually all of his spare time in feline activities.
Speaker A:He lived with cats, had sexual activity with them.
Speaker A:I don't know what that means.
Speaker A:Don't want to think about it.
Speaker A:Hunted with them and frequented cat night spots, which I hope is like a club for cats.
Speaker A:So frequented cat night spots.
Speaker A:I'm really picturing some cats having like a jazz club, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.
Speaker A:So he had a preference for the cat night spots to their human equivalents.
Speaker A:His greatest and I'm sorry it's so hard to like.
Speaker A:I'm trying to look at this with empathy and compassion.
Speaker A:So his greatest but unrequited love was for a tigress in a local zoo.
Speaker A:He hoped one day to release her.
Speaker A:The patient's lycanthropic delusions remained refractory to treatment with.
Speaker A:And then a bunch of.
Speaker A:They gave him a bunch of drugs and then six years of insight oriented psychotherapy.
Speaker A:But I mean, he been thinking he was a cat for 13 years.
Speaker A:That's going to take a lot of time to sort through.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, so I think that's interesting.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so he.
Speaker A:Technically he thought he was a cat, but they're putting him under lycanthropy instead of doing so.
Speaker B:Enthropy.
Speaker A:And there's another word too, but.
Speaker A:And you can get specific.
Speaker A:I know there's a specific.
Speaker A:There's a specific word.
Speaker A:I think you can go by like cats and like dogs as opposed to wolves.
Speaker A:But the fact that this has been a diagnosis for thousands of years and the number of people that were in this one case study from that hospital, like that makes it seem like there's this.
Speaker A:Maybe this is more a more common human condition.
Speaker B:Yeah, one would think.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's what Mary should have been thinking about when Asa asked her, what is a werewolf?
Speaker B:Is that what she should have imparted?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker B:Oh, well, damn.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we've never talked about that before.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker A:There's some insight into the world of clinical.
Speaker A:Of the clinical werewolves.
Speaker B:Clinical werewolves.
Speaker B:Well, we've also gotten a peek at Mary's car now, by the way.
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:So what is Mary driving?
Speaker B: It is a: Speaker B:I like It.
Speaker B:So as Asa exits the car, he's like, wait a minute.
Speaker B:What the.
Speaker B:A werewolf?
Speaker B:I mean, he didn't say that because he's a kid, but that's basically what he's saying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she's like, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, that's just something I used to like.
Speaker B:I would, like, hunt things like that, but I'm retired now.
Speaker B:I'm just tidying up some loose ends.
Speaker B:And he's like, well, who's gonna save people like me if you retire?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it freaks him out.
Speaker A:And it kind of makes her.
Speaker A:Her pause.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:She's like, no, no.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna send you into your mom.
Speaker A:Mom.
Speaker A:And he is like, wait, I'm gonna take your picture with this cool Polaroid camera that I have, but I'm not.
Speaker B:Gonna get your face.
Speaker B:And it's just gonna be, like, awkward.
Speaker B:Like, artsy.
Speaker A:It's just gonna be awkward.
Speaker A:Weird pigtails.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And so she leaves.
Speaker B:And he puts the picture on her.
Speaker B:His bulletin board.
Speaker B:And he starts.
Speaker B:He starts tracking cases.
Speaker A:Essentially, it's time for a montage.
Speaker B:It is a big montage of Asa becoming a hunter because of Mary.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so he basically, you see him growing from a young adolescent boy to a mainly manly hunter.
Speaker A:We see when he figures out how to make rocks up rock salt shotgun shells by the sea seashore.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then he, like, makes out with people and.
Speaker A:And he reads a lot of paper and he cuts them up.
Speaker B:And he keeps writing postcards to Mary that he's not mailing because he doesn't know where she is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's got a jeep.
Speaker B:He's got a Jeep.
Speaker B:And he grows a beard.
Speaker B:And then he's running through the woods and he.
Speaker B:We see him suddenly get caught in a noose.
Speaker A:It's very disturbing.
Speaker A:And I was like, what the.
Speaker B:Very upsetting.
Speaker A:This is what, like, this is.
Speaker A:You introduce us to this kind of, like, attractive band and then you hang him, you assholes.
Speaker B:All while roll on down the highway that buy the Bachman Turner Overdrive plays oh.
Speaker A:While making us.
Speaker A:So that's how we open.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So we're gonna get some relief from that because we're gonna switch to Sioux Falls and get some Jody.
Speaker A:And Jody has a really good idea.
Speaker A:And I think this is also really hungry right now.
Speaker A:And she wants some wine, some Netflix, and some pizza for her day off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the girl.
Speaker B:And the girls are not there, so it's just her.
Speaker B:And she gets a knock on the door, and it's Sam and Dean.
Speaker B:And she informs them that they look terrible because apparently they just finished a hunt and they were nearby, so they want to come say hello.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The girls are off at.
Speaker B:They're off being angsty at a Radiohead concert.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Who is playing in Omaha.
Speaker A:They have gone to Omaha, Nebraska, for a hot rock concert of Radiohead.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:For them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it's less than two minutes since they walked in the door before Gene tells Jody that he killed Hitler.
Speaker A:To which Jody is.
Speaker A:Just as soon as we all was like, thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so they sit down and eat pizza, and Dean is mocking Jody's choice of chick flicks.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And she's like, well, I am a chick.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, but you're like a badass chick.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And she's like, whatever, But.
Speaker B:So Sam decides to share what Dean's into.
Speaker A:Animated.
Speaker A:Yeah, animated Japanese erotica.
Speaker A:So he likes some hentai.
Speaker A:And this is visibly upsetting to everybody.
Speaker A:And Jody leaves the room.
Speaker B:She does, and the phone rings.
Speaker B:She goes to answer, and she is very upset.
Speaker B:When she comes back, not about the hentai, but she has to go pack because she has gotten word that her friend Asa Fox has died.
Speaker B:And Sam.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:And the boys have.
Speaker A:Have heard of him before.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I heard a story once where he killed five Wendigos in a night.
Speaker A:From Ellen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they're like.
Speaker B:She's like, yeah, you know, we met when he was working a case.
Speaker B:He was pretending we met.
Speaker A:Now, I want you to think about this.
Speaker A:Everything she says now that you know.
Speaker A:Which you know.
Speaker A:So she and Aesop met.
Speaker B:He was pretending to be Fox Mulder, FBI agent.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he was hunting a pack of ghouls.
Speaker B:And anyways, then he would come back and visit periodically.
Speaker B:And, you know, they just.
Speaker A:They would just have coffee.
Speaker A:They just, you know, had coffee.
Speaker B:Totally casual.
Speaker B:Yeah, but so.
Speaker B:But now he's got to get to his wake tonight point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they're gonna go to have awake and then salt and burn the body.
Speaker A:Which, again, hunters.
Speaker A:What the.
Speaker A:Y' all are just mean to yourselves and to others.
Speaker A:You don't want to become ghosts.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker A:But you.
Speaker A:We know what happens to them.
Speaker A:You think Sam and Dean would stop them from doing this?
Speaker A:Because I would tell them, like, you know what happens.
Speaker A:They just burn to nothing, and they go to the void.
Speaker A:Like, what the.
Speaker A:Like, if you don't do this, you get to go to heaven or wherever you believe in.
Speaker A:So tell them to stop it.
Speaker A:Knock it off.
Speaker B:This is not a good plan.
Speaker A:This is not A yeah.
Speaker A:So anyhow.
Speaker A:And there's gonna be other reasons why it's a bad plan.
Speaker A:We'll get to later.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But the boys want to go because it's a hunter gathering and they've never really gone to them because John was.
Speaker B:Just like, no, John was not into hanging out with other hunters.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But she's like, that's fine.
Speaker B:You can come.
Speaker B:But you have to bathe because you're disgusting.
Speaker B:And we're not gonna sit in the car for five hours too together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They still haven't showered.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:That's really gross.
Speaker A:Since they've been sitting there on her couch getting your boys.
Speaker B:Who wants to like eat when you're stinky?
Speaker B:Like, you go take a shower, then you get like refreshed and Sydney.
Speaker A:And then you get pizza.
Speaker A:Oh, you gross boys.
Speaker A:All right, so we're going to Manitoba.
Speaker A:And this implies that they have passports.
Speaker A:Do you think the passports are in the Winchester's names or are they using fake passports to get across?
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So this is the first time that they have visited Canada within the show canon other than their Vancouver visit in the alternative reality in.
Speaker A:In season six.
Speaker A:So according to the show, they've only been state sized the first time we're in Canada.
Speaker A:So yeah, we're going up to the house we saw before and just many badly parked cars.
Speaker A:None of these cars are parked with any sense.
Speaker A:And nobody is going to be able to get out of there.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:It's very stressful to me.
Speaker A:Please rearrange your cars.
Speaker B:And man in the Box by Alison Chains is blaring from the house.
Speaker B:The family.
Speaker A:The normal wake music.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's Asa's family home.
Speaker B:Is what we learn.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And there's people.
Speaker B:It's awake.
Speaker B:They're drinking and laughing and telling stories throughout the house.
Speaker B:And a woman greets Jody and clearly knows her.
Speaker B:This is Asa's mom.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:I just blanked on her name.
Speaker B:Lorraine.
Speaker A:Lorraine.
Speaker B:Lorraine, yes.
Speaker B:So Lorraine greets Jody and she's just talking about how she's got a house full of loud drunk hunters.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Dean goes to the kitchen and he.
Speaker A:We find some homebrew and we see the guy that we saw earlier from the montage with Asa working at the Jeep.
Speaker A:And Dean introduces himself and the record stopped.
Speaker A:Cops.
Speaker B:Because everybody knows who the.
Speaker B:The Winchesters are.
Speaker A:Dean Winchester, Aren't you dead?
Speaker B:He died like four times.
Speaker B:And is Sam.
Speaker B:And then one of the other guys is like, is Sam here?
Speaker B:His name is Elvis.
Speaker B:He Runs off to go meet Sam because he wants to meet Sam.
Speaker A:He wants to fanboy over them.
Speaker A:And so these boys are known to other hunters.
Speaker A:And introductions like, like start going all around.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We got Bucky and Randy, our two main buddies hanging out here.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, well, yeah, by the way, I also heard crazy stories about Asa and.
Speaker B:But I didn't know him personally.
Speaker B:And they're like, oh, which one did you know?
Speaker B:And Dean learns that the magic word is Wendigo because he says it and then everybody has to drink.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anytime anyone says the word Wendigo, everyone has to go.
Speaker A:So the story about Asa having killing five.
Speaker A:Five of them at one time.
Speaker A:We don't know his legend or not, but it is a magic word.
Speaker A:So Bucky is like, look, man, if you think the stories you've heard about Asa, you should hear what they say about you.
Speaker A:And we cut from that to where Sam is talking to a very good looking couple of twins.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That are hunters.
Speaker B:And apparently they were raised by a quote, good witch who was very Enya 90s crystals witch, which I was amused by.
Speaker B:But she taught them about magic and about seduction, apparently, because that's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But Elvis is going to interrupt and want introduce himself to Sam and because he heard of all about Sam from a friend of a friend of Garth, that Sam was possessed by the devil, Lucifer himself and lived and wants to know about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the twins are like, what the man?
Speaker A:Like, what is wrong with you?
Speaker A:Have some like for self respect.
Speaker A:You just don't go somebody asking somebody something that messed up right off the bat.
Speaker A:And Sam ran away.
Speaker A:Like, it reminds me of like Richard Spate running away on the cruise ship.
Speaker A:And all the fans started approaching him and they were all drunk.
Speaker A:I've never seen anybody run so fast.
Speaker A:And that's what this is, how fast Sam ran away.
Speaker B:So he's going for a beer and those other.
Speaker B:The two, the two attractive hunters tell Elvis to go away.
Speaker B:Recently it was kind of mean.
Speaker A:Like he squishes it on the couch and they're just like off.
Speaker A:Which I also kind of.
Speaker A:It's kind of mean, but I'm also kind of impressed by it, so.
Speaker B:Well, Sam and Dan are now lurking around the house.
Speaker A:Dean is being fucking nosy.
Speaker A:This isn't your house.
Speaker A:Dean, where the.
Speaker A:Why are you in this man's bedroom?
Speaker A:I know it's awake, but it's.
Speaker A:I don't know if like Lorraine was just like, please just walk through my house.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, it seems like a lot.
Speaker B:And they're like, they find that he had.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, it was legit.
Speaker B:He has an angel blade.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, by the way, did you know that people tell stories about us?
Speaker B:And Dean's like, apparently, we're legendary.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, but so is Asa.
Speaker B:And he's like, yeah, he died on the job.
Speaker B:That's the best way to go.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, do you really believe that?
Speaker B:And Dean's like, yeah, we're not in the.
Speaker B:In a, you know, line of work where you live to 90 and die in your sleep so that all.
Speaker B:It all ends one way and points at all the clippings on the wall, all the cases.
Speaker B:So that's sad.
Speaker A:It is sad.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But also, those cases are all people that Asa saved.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:Dean looking on.
Speaker A:We can look at that one way or the other.
Speaker A:But then Dean also warned Sam that he shouldn't say the word windigo right now.
Speaker A:So out in the.
Speaker A:Out in the house, Ace's mom is already starting to say goodbye to people.
Speaker A:So we kind of feel like things are starting to wind down.
Speaker B:Down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Except for a few of, like, the handful of, like, the.
Speaker B:I guess, the ones that knew the family best.
Speaker B:And so we've got.
Speaker B:It's Bucky, Randy, Lorraine, Jody, the two hot witch hunters, Elvis, and.
Speaker B:And of course, Sam and Dean.
Speaker B:So they're Bucky's telling stories about how something about Jody and Asa sneaking off for a lonely time.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:So they used to sneak off and bang.
Speaker A:And so now we know for sure what that coffee meant.
Speaker A:But Asa was popular with the ladies, is what his mom says.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And Jody justifies herself by saying, data.
Speaker B:You know, dating is hard, and that it was casual.
Speaker B:But, yeah, you get the implication that there was probably a little more to it than that.
Speaker B:So Randy is gonna go off to get refills.
Speaker B:He goes down the hall to the kitchen, and on his way back.
Speaker B:Back, he gets his throat slit.
Speaker B:But no one notices that he doesn't come back.
Speaker B:And it's very quiet and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Quiet.
Speaker A:Gutting.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And right around then, we also see our.
Speaker B:Our witchy chick get, like, come back from getting a refill and come sit back down, too.
Speaker B:So as that all's happening, we have a new guest arrive at the wake.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Mary makes an entrance and is awkward.
Speaker B:Super awkward.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But Jody gets to meet Mary, which is also very awkward.
Speaker A:It's so very awkward because apparently Sam and Dean neglected tell Jody that entire time that they were at their house or they were in a car that their mother came back from the dead.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That seems like big news.
Speaker A:I think I would have led with that.
Speaker B:Not Hitler.
Speaker A:Perhaps not the Hitler.
Speaker A:Perhaps not Dean.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And Jody senses there's some tension, and she's going to wow herself away from.
Speaker A:From the Sam and Dean and Mary show.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Mary shares that she's been all over.
Speaker B:Spent some time in Lawrence, and.
Speaker B:But she's been following through the journal to tie things up.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, well, we could have done that.
Speaker B:And she's like, yeah, I needed to do it alone because pretty much everyone I know is dead.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:But I remembered Asa, and I thought he might still be around, and then I saw that he died.
Speaker B:So that's kind of a bummer, Mary.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's kind of what Mary is right now.
Speaker A:Mary is just a bummer, but Dean is just pissy, and he goes.
Speaker A:And she wanted to do it alone.
Speaker A:So Dean goes off to pout, and he runs into Jody, who is righteously annoyed that she had to hear so much about Hitler and nothing about his.
Speaker B:Mom, which is reasonable.
Speaker B:And she's like, also, you should think about this.
Speaker B:Because she's like, have I had a chance to get my son and my husband back?
Speaker B:Back?
Speaker B:I would literally give anything.
Speaker B:But it would also scare me, because what if I had changed?
Speaker B:Or what if they had changed and it didn't work out?
Speaker B:So no matter what happens here, I understand it's scary, and I'm here to talk.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:So it's very heartfelt.
Speaker A:I'm here for you, and it's very nice.
Speaker A:And we're gonna get some less heartfelt conversations, because as everybody ends up in the kitchen during a party, Lorraine is in there, and she introduces herself to Mary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she doesn't.
Speaker B:She's in a little disbelief about Mary's age, which is reasonable at this point.
Speaker B:But anyways, Mary apologized, you know, says she's sorry, you know, for Lorraine's loss.
Speaker B:And Lorraine basically holds Mary accountable for.
Speaker B:She blames Mary for Asa being a hunter.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And she does not like Asa being having that life, Right?
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker A:And she's like, here are all these postcards that he wrote to you that he could.
Speaker A:Couldn't send.
Speaker A:So we get to see the stack of postcards that we saw in the montage.
Speaker A:And Lorraine is just like, look, hunting was his life.
Speaker A:He never married or have kids.
Speaker A:And I'm pissed off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so that.
Speaker B:And so she's just like, yeah, enjoy the wake.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:She's pissed, but.
Speaker B:So Sam Finds Mary, and she's like, look, I.
Speaker B:You know, I think I'm fine.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, no, he made his own decision, and he saved people.
Speaker B:We can't be upset about that.
Speaker B:And she's like, everything everywhere I go and everything I do feels wrong.
Speaker B:And he's like, it's okay to need space.
Speaker B:We're here.
Speaker B:You know, we don't.
Speaker B:Just don't want to lose you again.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker B:While Dean's drinking from his flask by himself outside.
Speaker B:Because of course he is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Sam just also just gives her a hunting is in our blood speech.
Speaker A:And so it's time to go look at Asa's corpse.
Speaker B:Well, but also, we note that this is.
Speaker B: Took place in: Speaker B:So this.
Speaker B:She was not retired.
Speaker B:When everybody thought she was retired, she was not retired.
Speaker A:And they, you know, she basically.
Speaker A:She said she was finishing up a few loose ends when she was going out after this werewolf hunter.
Speaker B:So now we go look at Asa's body, and she uncovers his face, and then blood starts dripping on her.
Speaker B:It wtf?
Speaker A:And she's got to be really tired of seeing things, of being on the ceiling.
Speaker A:Like, she's got to have, like, ceiling ptsd.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was saying, like, traumatizing, for real, because Randy's dead, bleeding, tied to the ceiling.
Speaker B:It's very upsetting.
Speaker B:So Sam and Mary go back to the main room, and Bucky's telling some story about, you know, Asa's Jeep.
Speaker B:And she's like, we need to leave because somebody killed Randy.
Speaker B:What the.
Speaker B:And we see Elvis come in, and he's like, why is the water turned off?
Speaker B:And why does it smell like sulfur in here?
Speaker B:I think he's a hunter.
Speaker B:And it's just very like.
Speaker A:Yeah, so it smells like sulfur.
Speaker A:Then the electricity goes.
Speaker A:They're like, oh, no, it's a daemon.
Speaker B:It's a daemon.
Speaker B:And apparently it.
Speaker B:Bucky's like, it's jail.
Speaker B:It's a crossroads demon who hangs people and snaps their neck and slits their throat.
Speaker B:That's what killed Asa.
Speaker B:We can't leave, though, now because the house is super warded and we're trapped here.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:So they've been magicked in the house.
Speaker A:And Dean.
Speaker A:We got to Dean outside.
Speaker A:And who should appear but Billy.
Speaker B:Which is not a good sign because.
Speaker B:But she's like, oh, yeah, I totally just reaped a fresh soul inside.
Speaker B:And so Dean's like, what?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:And tries to get back in, but he can't, as this is all going on.
Speaker B:Bucky is sharing the story of Asa.
Speaker B:Apparently there was a possession of a.
Speaker B:Of a First nations girl.
Speaker B:And may this.
Speaker B:This demon made Asa watch the girl hang herself.
Speaker B:And it was very upsetting to him and traumatizing to him.
Speaker B:And so while he's telling the story, Dean is still trying to get in, trying to call Sam.
Speaker B:And Billy's like they're under like a supernatural lockdown.
Speaker B:So sorry about that.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:But yeah, Bucky is still telling his story.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, you know, we're, you know, we tried to do the exorcism but didn't work.
Speaker B:And then five years later JL came back or we did the exorcism at the.
Speaker B:The angel blade.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Exorcism is not permanent.
Speaker A:Like an angel blade.
Speaker A:And jail came back and possessed Asa's girlfriend.
Speaker B:And then now they have to decide who in the house is possessed by the demon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So nobody in there has any holy water.
Speaker A:And they can't make any more because the water is off.
Speaker A:So now we learned that we talked about this way back in season one, that they are apparently making their own holy water and not doing that with the priests because there is no priest in there.
Speaker A:So they are apparently making holy water just by praying in it or dipping something in it.
Speaker A:And what?
Speaker A:There's no water like though like plastic water bottle anywhere.
Speaker A:Like, you know, like, can't you make some maybe like holy beer?
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Originally, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, it was water.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So why not?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But so they're like, okay.
Speaker A:So then the.
Speaker A:Billy's just like, the lockdown is we're going.
Speaker A:Going back and forth outside.
Speaker A:So Billy thinks the lockdown says the lockdown isn't her.
Speaker A:But she thinks it's funny.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because she just likes a Winchester not getting their way.
Speaker B:She's just as stoked about that.
Speaker B:So inside, Sam remembers that Dean is outside and he's like, wait a minute.
Speaker B:And then our witchy chick starts laughing and coughing because she is fucking possessed.
Speaker B:And the demon smokes out and they.
Speaker A:Decide they're going to pair off to go make sure there aren't any stragglers in that house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Dean tells Billy, get me the in that house.
Speaker B:And she's like, there's one.
Speaker B:It's a one way ticket.
Speaker B:I'll get you in.
Speaker B:But that's it.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker B:She's gonna.
Speaker A:And you're gonna owe me one all that too.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:So we know that's coming.
Speaker B:But we've got.
Speaker B:Elvis is delivering Lorraine a fresh cocktail as Dean gets thrown through the door.
Speaker B:And Lorraine thinks that he's a demon.
Speaker A:He's a demon.
Speaker B:But ends up Elvis is the demon and pulls a knife.
Speaker B:So we get a fight.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But while they're fighting, Dean's like, go to hell.
Speaker B:And Elvis, like, it's a mess there.
Speaker B:There's no loose fur, no Crowley.
Speaker B:So we know we're hearing more about how up hell is right now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's interesting to know.
Speaker A:And Dean starts to exorcise him.
Speaker A:And the demon just snaps his neck and cocks back, smokes out.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker B:Just like, neck cracking.
Speaker B:It's wild.
Speaker B:It's very sad.
Speaker B:And poor Lorraine's crying.
Speaker B:She's very upsetting.
Speaker B:So they all reconvene because they're all like, oh, well, the demon moved again.
Speaker B:And the lights go out.
Speaker B:And so they're lighting candles and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Making it.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:Everyone have flashlights?
Speaker A:So they're all prepared with the flashlight.
Speaker A:Not with.
Speaker A:Nobody had holy water, but they all had flashlights.
Speaker A:Points.
Speaker A:And Dean's like, I've got a demon knife.
Speaker A:And the twins are like, nice.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker B:And someone goes and sneaks away to get the Angel Blade.
Speaker B:We see that happen.
Speaker B:But the way they're.
Speaker B:They're doing the opposite.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, well, why?
Speaker B:How is the devil's trap gonna work?
Speaker B:He's like, well, whoever is possessed won't get into trap.
Speaker B:That's how you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And Max wants to know what kind of pentagram, what kind of doubles trap Sam is making.
Speaker A:And they nerd out because Sam's like, I'm making a standard pentagram, nothing fancy.
Speaker A:And Max is like, I like a fifth pinnacle on Mars.
Speaker A:It's got more character.
Speaker A:And the fifth pinnacle, Mars, is a way that you can stop demons from the Key of Solomon.
Speaker A:So that was cute.
Speaker A:But Alicia's like, character is not what really matters.
Speaker B:Well, we now have Jody telling Sam that she thinks that Mary is possessed.
Speaker A:Possessed.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, what?
Speaker B:And Jody's like, you need to kill her right now.
Speaker B:She's possessed.
Speaker B:And Jody's, like, screaming at Sam and Dean to kill their mom because she's possessed.
Speaker B:And so now they know that Jody's possessed because Jody wouldn't do that.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And she's giggling about how she hoped they'd kill their mom.
Speaker B:And she's flinging people around because she's, you know, Jody demon.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And Mary tries to kill Jody with the angel blade.
Speaker B:And Sam stops her because she's like, it's a demon.
Speaker A:We kill demons.
Speaker B:And she's like, no.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's like, yeah, but it's Jody.
Speaker B:I'm like.
Speaker A:Or any human being.
Speaker A:Any human being.
Speaker A:Don't stab them while they're alive.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:That you do not get the person out.
Speaker A:That you kill the.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, Joe, you, Mary.
Speaker A:I don't know what's going on.
Speaker B:Up with the times a little bit here.
Speaker B:So demon Jody's got everybody pinned to the floor, and she's gonna go on her monologue about how so.
Speaker B:But we get a lot of intel.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We get all the tea.
Speaker B:Because she's been in everybody's head, apparently, now.
Speaker B:And so she knows that the witchy twins are there to say goodbye to their daddy.
Speaker B:Oh, we had a comment earlier.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because we had a comment earlier from the boy twin about how their mom had a.
Speaker B:You know, know, Basically had the hots for Asa, and that was all.
Speaker B:It was kind of, like, left on, but yeah.
Speaker B:So apparently that Asa had twin kids that he may or may not have known about.
Speaker B:Lorena.
Speaker B:Lorena Lorraine was apparently intentionally regularly hiding Ace's gear because she.
Speaker B:In sabotaging his Jeep, she didn't want him to hunt.
Speaker B:Apparently, Jody was not just, you know, a fling.
Speaker B:While Jody didn't consider Asa just a fling, she was fantasizing about a life with Asa.
Speaker B:That's sad.
Speaker B:And then Bucky is going to try to attack her, but she's like, no, no.
Speaker B:You need to share.
Speaker B:You need to share your story, bud.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then we start having a round of trying to exercise.
Speaker B:Exercise.
Speaker B:Not exercise, exercising.
Speaker B:They're all taking turns.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:It's Jazzercise time.
Speaker A:But as the group effort exorcism starts, and it starts off with Sam, and it's going to kind of round robin this.
Speaker A:Through there, we find out that Bucky killed Asa.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What the.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So they finished the exorcism, and Jody is freed of the demon.
Speaker B:She's just like, that sucked.
Speaker B:Poor Jody.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And now it's time for Bucky to confess and tell his story.
Speaker A:So apparently, while they were in their woods.
Speaker A:In the woods, JL Was taunting them.
Speaker A:Then they ended up in a shoving match, and he shoved Asa onto a stump, and he died.
Speaker A:So he decided that he would fake it and pretend it was demon so nobody would think that he killed his friend.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Dean's like, so you hung your best friend to cover your own ass?
Speaker B:And he's like, what are you gonna do to me?
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:The twins are like, we're just gonna tell every hunter you like Stories.
Speaker B:You're the one that likes to talk about all these other hunters years.
Speaker B:This will be the one about you forever.
Speaker A:So they're gonna make this his legacy.
Speaker B:Because it was obviously an accident.
Speaker B:It's just how he covered it up that's like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And he caused the death of three more people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so we're gonna go to that where they are burning all the corpses.
Speaker B:To the next morning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They're standing right in front of it.
Speaker A:This smell.
Speaker A:The smell.
Speaker A:What is wrong with these women?
Speaker A:It's going to be in their coats forever.
Speaker A:Is like bonfire smell is bad enough.
Speaker A:Then you're gonna throw in some burning hair and flesh.
Speaker A:And like, these are not skeletons.
Speaker A:These are people who died that day.
Speaker A:This is just nasty.
Speaker A:What is wrong with you Hunters?
Speaker B:That's gross.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:So in the as this is happening.
Speaker B:Lorraine talks to Mary and says that she was wrong.
Speaker B:Asa did have a family, including kids, and so she's gonna go meet her grandchildren.
Speaker A:So she's super just like, whoop, I'm just adopting these children now.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker B:And Mary apologizes to Jody.
Speaker B:And Jody says, look, mom to mom, you've right.
Speaker B:The boys are good men.
Speaker B:So we have a sweet moment there.
Speaker B:And she's like, I know.
Speaker B:They aren't the problem.
Speaker B:Problem.
Speaker B:So Jody's like, okay, yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean, it's.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's internal.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And Billy shows up, and she's already got her favor.
Speaker A:And the favor she wants is she wants Mary because she's a big believer.
Speaker A:And what dies, stays dead.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Mary's like, I didn't ask to come back.
Speaker B:And Billy's like, I know, but whatever.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:I know, but you have that dead man's look in your eye where the world doesn't fit.
Speaker B:You feel alone.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not here to hurt you.
Speaker B:I'm trying to give you mercy is what Billy says.
Speaker B:And she's gonna take her upstairs, but.
Speaker A:There is a caveat.
Speaker A:Because reapers cannot kill people.
Speaker A:So someone's gonna have to kill her or her.
Speaker A:She's just gonna have to wait.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so Billy just says Winchester's and leaves.
Speaker A:So Mary has once has proven herself that she is one of the Winchesters for sure.
Speaker A:And Billy's gonna off.
Speaker A:But if anyone knows, like anyone changes their mind, they know her name.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And there we go.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:They're gonna go have some bacon for breakfast.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because Mary.
Speaker A:Mary's gonna need does is not ready to go home quite yet.
Speaker A:She needs some time on her own, but it seems like Dean's gonna be a little less pissy about it, and so they're gonna go get some bacon and walk away from the smell of the burning flesh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's talk about our people who are in there, I'm assuming.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got quite a cast.
Speaker B:Casting couch.
Speaker A:It's the casting couch.
Speaker C:Were they on that show that time with that guy?
Speaker B:So we've got.
Speaker B:Bucky was played by Mac Brandt.
Speaker B:He's been in episodes of Jericho, Entourage a few episodes of Grey's Anatomy, Bones, csi, NCIS Scandal, a couple episodes of General Hospital, Grim Swat, Arrested Development a few times, Lovecraft Country a few times, 911 a few times, Monster a couple times, the Cleaning Lady, a few times, the Pit and Tracker.
Speaker B:So some pretty popular current shows, too.
Speaker B:He was also Officer Matt Mac, Mac Andrews on Prison Break, which was a reoccurring character.
Speaker B: ammer of the Gods, which is a: Speaker B:Jack the bartender in Venom, the movie construction worker in Barbie, and, uh, he was an Arkham guard in the New Joker.
Speaker B:I'm not going to say the French words because I'll say it wrong.
Speaker B:You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:Anyways, Elvis was played by Bill Wickman.
Speaker B:He's been episodes of Falling Skies, Arrow I, Zombie, X Files, Van Helsing, Riverdale, and the Last of Us.
Speaker B: was also a flight tech in the: Speaker B:Lorraine was played by Lori Patton, been episodes of X Files and Chesapeake Shores.
Speaker B:She was Mary Jo Buttafuoco in the Amy Fisher Story.
Speaker B:Alicia is our young witchy chick that gets possessed.
Speaker B:Not young, but the.
Speaker B:The hot witchy chick.
Speaker B:Hot witchy hunter.
Speaker B:She's been played by Kara Woister, and she's in another episode of Supernatural, but she's been episodes of Scream Queens, 91 1, the Runaways, NCIS, CSI Vegas, and Faking it as a reoccurring character.
Speaker B:The twin brother witchy dude was played by Kendrick Sampson.
Speaker B:He's been in episodes of csi, Days of Our Lives, Rosewood and the Flash.
Speaker B:He was Jesse in the Vampire Diaries, reoccurring character Henry in a movie called Rougarou.
Speaker B:And yeah, so.
Speaker B:And he's been in a few other things as well.
Speaker B:Randy was played by Darren E. Scott.
Speaker B: He's been episodes of: Speaker B:Helsing Tracker, Supergirl, altered carbon.
Speaker B:He's MX43 in almost human as a reoccurring character and did a lot of stunt work, specifically in the film Skyscraper, reoccurring episodes of Riverdale, the Shogun series and more.
Speaker B:So he's been a lot of stunt work, actually.
Speaker B:Asa Fox was played by Shane Jones.
Speaker B: Been episodes of: Speaker B:He was also a soldier in the Day the Earth Stood Still.
Speaker B:And young Asa, who we saw at the beginning, was played by Jack Moore, who is a reoccurring character on Arrow named William Clayton.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Lots of hunters.
Speaker A:Lots of.
Speaker A:Lots of hunters.
Speaker A:But fun hunters years.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And yeah.
Speaker A:So I, I, I.
Speaker A:Like I said the beginning of this, this episode's a lot, but what did you.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:Well, so I think it was.
Speaker B:I like that it added a layer for Jody, but it was just a sad layer.
Speaker B:And she didn't need any other sad layers.
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker A:Yeah, she can't date at all.
Speaker A:No, she ends up going out with Crowley or banging a hunter.
Speaker A:And really, we all know the hunter on you picked him.
Speaker A:You mean y' all met up while you were on a hunt?
Speaker A:And I don't think Asa seems like the, the stay at home kind of guy, so maybe you were trying to change him.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But this is, this is my main problem with this episode.
Speaker A:Anti possession sigils.
Speaker A:What the.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:How do you.
Speaker A:Why do you not.
Speaker A:Like, why don't you just paint them on?
Speaker A:Like, I don't understand.
Speaker A:You're hunters.
Speaker A:Like, why are Sam and Dean the only one with anti possession tattoos?
Speaker A:Statues.
Speaker B:We know.
Speaker B:And then why, why do people think that they're possessed when they clearly have those also?
Speaker A:Well, they don't.
Speaker A:They didn't.
Speaker A:Why didn't they have them?
Speaker A:They should have had them.
Speaker A:They're hunters.
Speaker A:All hunters should have them.
Speaker A:I would think that.
Speaker A:And if the hunters did not have them, Sam and Dean should go, hey, do you know about these anti possession things we have?
Speaker A:And then like, right, they all have a tattoo party.
Speaker B:Well, it's like Dean, they're like, oh, Dean must be the demon.
Speaker B:And no one's like, no, no, he has an anti possession tattoo.
Speaker B:It can't be him.
Speaker B:Like, no one.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:They don't even bring it up.
Speaker B:That is.
Speaker B:That is a good point.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I, I feel.
Speaker B:Very valid point.
Speaker B:Anti possession tattoo party is what we need.
Speaker A:They should have had.
Speaker A:That's what they thought.
Speaker A:Weight should have turned into.
Speaker A:They should have been like, tattoo.
Speaker A:Like, someone should have got some stick and pens and just like, sat there and just kind of tagged each other.
Speaker B:You can just order one off of Amazon now.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker A:I don't, like.
Speaker A:Don't do that.
Speaker B:Don't do that.
Speaker B:Please don't do that.
Speaker A:Don't do that.
Speaker A:Oh, I don't want to see your terrible tattoo on Instagram.
Speaker A:Do not do it.
Speaker A:Don't do it.
Speaker B:But, yeah, no, that's a very good point.
Speaker B:I feel like a lot of this episode was avoidable and it was very upsetting.
Speaker A:I feel like these hunters weren't good.
Speaker A:Like, they should.
Speaker A:They should know better.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like this should have been an easier.
Speaker A:We have a demon.
Speaker A:This should be an easier solve.
Speaker A:Like, I would have been like, five minutes.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker A:We got this.
Speaker A:We got six hunters in here.
Speaker A:Like, let's.
Speaker A:Let's clear this problem out.
Speaker B:Why is this complicated?
Speaker A:Yeah, but no, I mean, I understand it.
Speaker A:Obviously, it made for.
Speaker A:I, I, I do love a good Trapped in the house story.
Speaker A:Like, was like, let's trap everyone in the house so they're forced to confront their problems.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I do love that as a trope, and it's been a while since they've done it on this show, so, I mean, yeah, that.
Speaker B:Hunters.
Speaker A:I, I always enjoy meeting other hunters, especially.
Speaker A:We got some good personalities in here, even though some of them, you know, know.
Speaker A:Not that I wanted to see it.
Speaker A:More of Elvis.
Speaker A:Like, this is probably enough Elvis.
Speaker A:But it was sad to see him die that way.
Speaker A:Even though it was a really cool death.
Speaker B:I know it was.
Speaker A:It was very.
Speaker A:Death becomes her.
Speaker B:Flip around.
Speaker A:All right, anything else?
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Cheers.
Speaker B:Jerk.
Speaker B:Cheers.
Speaker B:Devil's Trap podcast is a Don't get a production.
Speaker B:Meow.
Speaker C:Double Strap Podcast is part of the Ship It Studio podcast network.
Speaker C:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker C:You can follow us on Instagram at Devilstrap Podcast, Twitter at Devilstrap Pod, or you can email us@devilstrapevilstrappodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.
Speaker C:We're at all your favorite podcast outlets and@devilstrapp podcast.com I'm Babe.
Speaker C:Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
Speaker B:Going up to the spirit in the sky that's where I'm going to go when I die When I and they lay me.
